Legislature(2009 - 2010)BELTZ 105 (TSBldg)
02/26/2010 08:00 AM Senate EDUCATION
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| SB224 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| *+ | SB 283 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| += | SB 224 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED |
SB 224-POSTSECONDARY SCHOLARSHIPS
8:03:31 AM
CO-CHAIR MEYER announced continuation of consideration of SB
224. It was heard previously; committee substitute (CS), 26-
GS2771\E was adopted on 2/15/10 and amendments to the original
bill were discussed on 2/22/2010. Today, he said, the committee
would hear from the commissioner.
8:05:14 AM
LARRY LEDOUX, Commissioner, Department of Education and Early
Development (DEED), said he will briefly review topics related
to the CS and address the questions that were submitted to the
department yesterday. Describing the alternative requirements
provided in the CS as interesting, he said he has no objection
to this proposed change. He recounted that the governor's bill
requires four years of mathematics, four years of science, four
years of language arts, and three years of social studies.
Alternatively, the CS requires three years of mathematics, four
years of language arts, three years of science, three years of
social Studies, and two years of a foreign language or Alaska
Native language. He opined that the alternative requirements
would provide a rigorous college curriculum and he particularly
likes that the foreign language requirement includes the option
for Alaska Native language. Also, many college-bound students
already study a foreign language and many colleges list that as
a requirement.
COMMISSIONER LEDOUX said he does have concern that the CS
removes the standardized test requirement because they validate
the student's grades and the rigor of the courses, reduce the
circumstance of grade inflation, and provide insurance that
students are prepared. Observing that the ACT and SAT are
accurate predictors of how successful a student will be in
his/her first year of college, he pointed out that a primary
goal of this program is to ensure that Alaska schools are
sending to the university young people who will succeed.
Students need to be ready to compete and the standardized test
ensures that they're ready.
He said he's also very concerned that the CS provides only one
performance scholarship. To qualify a student must have a 3.5
GPA or higher in rigorous academic courses. That's the only
scholarship a student can get by working hard without showing
needs. There's no B+ scholarship without needs and there's no C+
scholarship without needs. The next two tiers [opportunity and
career scholarships] have a needs-based qualification, but if a
student doesn't have a need, he/she isn't qualified for these.
This is very different than the governor's scholarship as
originally proposed, which is an invitation to all students to
participate. The goal of the program is to invite students as
early as sixth grade to think about course choices and work with
parents to encourage their children to work hard to prepare for
college.
COMMISSIONER LEDOUX noted that the other body has accepted a
needs-based amendment to the governor's program that puts the
need after the merit so that all students can qualify, but if
there is a financial need once they qualify then the need could
be met. That is consistent with the challenge for excellence
that we're sending to young people, he said. We're saying that
if a student works hard and makes the right choices in school,
the state will help with higher education. The needs-based
component helps students whose families can't pay for college in
Alaska.
COMMISSIONER LEDOUX expressed concern about lowering the
standard for the career scholarship and noted that most career
and technical education specialists warn against lowering
standards. These students work hard and they'll achieve a high
standard if one's set. He cited the results from a recent survey
of courses offered in schools statewide and said that the
performance scholarship will have the effect of ensuring that
students in every school in the state will have access to
rigorous courses. He noted that some schools aren't delivering
the program that students need to be successful in college
regardless of the scholarship, and he believes that should
change immediately.
COMMISSIONER LEDOUX summarized that the biggest difference
between the two bills is the needs before merit. That's not
acceptable, he stated.
CO-CHAIR MEYER said he appreciates the comments about the ACT
and SAT.
8:17:12 AM
SENATOR OLSON asked if the ACT and SAT are available and
currently offered to students in the smaller high schools like
Diomede, Shaktoolik, and Savoonga.
COMMISSIONER LEDOUX replied any school in the state can become a
test center and the tests will be offered if there's a student
that needs to take them. He added that he assumes that if a
community wasn't able to offer the test that the student would
be flown to the appropriate location to do so. Students wouldn't
be denied the opportunity to take the tests.
SENATOR OLSON observed that this would likely add stress and put
those students at a disadvantage.
COMMISSIONER LEDOUX said that's correct, but he believes that
most schools, regardless of size, offer the tests in the
community.
SENATOR STEVENS observed that grade inflation would be a real
disservice to students and standardized tests address this issue
and keep everyone honest.
8:18:51 AM
SENATOR HUGGINS described the scholarship program as an agent
for change in schools and mused about how quickly schools will
be able to conform to the new standards. He clarified that he
isn't looking for an answer today, but it is an important piece
to understand.
COMMISSIONER LEDOUX said it's important to understand that
implementation of the requirements will be phased in and the law
allows for that. He noted that other states have phased in over
four years.
SENATOR HUGGINS asked about the monetary impact as they move
toward full implementation.
COMMISSIONER LEDOUX replied they have some predictability models
with regard to scholarship use.
8:21:08 AM
SENATOR DAVIS asked how many schools are in the state.
COMMISSIONER LEDOUX replied he's been told that the survey
included 339 high schools in the state and that there are over
500 schools in the state, but he'll verify those numbers.
SENATOR OLSON asked if the numbers include private schools
MR. LEDOUX replied he understands that the survey included just
public schools.
8:23:58 AM
CO-CHAIR MEYER asked if he'd like the bill to specify the
courses or if he'd prefer to keep it general so DEED could
specify the courses.
COMMISSIONER LEDOUX replied he would prefer that DEED specify
the courses to meet the goals of the program. If it's specified
in the law it would be necessary to return to the Legislature as
university requirements change, whereas the state Board of
Education could respond more expeditiously.
8:24:37 AM
SENATOR HUGGINS asked if his assumption is accurate that this
will be easier for correspondence and home school students to
conform to.
COMMISSIONER LEDOUX answered yes.
SENATOR HUGGINS questioned how this will be communicated to home
school students.
COMMISSIONER LEDOUX replied most home school students in this
state are affiliated with a school district or state-sponsored
correspondence programs so it wouldn't be difficult. The home
school students who aren't affiliated with anyone generally
monitor what the Legislature and DEED does, but they would also
receive communications through the public information process.
8:25:51 AM
DIANE BARRENS, Executive Director, Alaska Commission on
Postsecondary Education, informed the committee that the
commission has a robust outreach unit that uses the PFD database
to send age-specific information directly to households. She
added that the governor's scholarship program would certainly be
a keystone of that outreach if it were to pass.
CO-CHAIR MEYER asked why the governor's bill lowers the monetary
amount for vocational students to $3,000 when it's recognized
that vocational schools can be just as expensive as the
university.
MR. LEDOUX said they're looking at whether $3,000 is too low,
but they know that most programs at the Alaska Vocational
Technical Center (AVTEC), for example, cost between $1,600 and
$2,500. The tuition for a licensed practical nurse is the most
expensive program and it costs $5,000. He noted that the other
body amended the needs-based component making career technical
students eligible for needs-based based on room and board and
other reasonable costs of attendance. That body also proposed an
amendment that would allow students who qualify under the
academic scholarships to transfer the award to a career
technical school.
8:28:54 AM
SENATOR OLSON asked if vocational students are required to take
the ACT or SAT.
COMMISSIONER LEDOUX replied they anticipate that vocational
technical students could qualify through either the ACT or the
WorkKeys job skills assessment.
CO-CHAIR MEYER opined that the ACT and SAT are both good
assessment tools, but he recalls that the original bill set
rather high standards for students to meet.
COMMISSIONER LEDOUX clarified that the bill does not set
standards, but the inference was that the state Board of
Education would set standards. He said he wouldn't want the
standards to be any higher than necessary in order to validate
grades and predict success in college. He offered to provide
data relating to minimum ACT scores that are predictive of
college performance and historical performance data on both the
SAT and ACT tests. These show that our students generally
perform, he said.
CO-CHAIR MEYER said he would appreciate the information. He
added that he believes that it's important to look at how a
student scores on both the SAT and the ACT because they're very
different tests.
COMMISSIONER LEDOUX observed that many programs accept either
test because they cross-correlate. He said it would be easy to
use either test as a qualifier because they're both predictive
of success during the first year of college.
8:32:05 AM
SENATOR STEVENS asked, assuming that this passes, if DEED has
the ability to track students sufficiently to know that this has
worked or if they will have to wait to hear from the university
about the number of students who actually get a degree.
COMMISSIONER LEDOUX explained that an Alaska Commission on
Postsecondary Education applied for a grant to do longitudinal
studies to determine student performance at the university. As
currently written, the bill requires DEED to submit an annual
report informing the Legislature about the status of the
scholarships and what's happening at the university. He opined
that this program has great potential to change education in the
state so it will be important to have good data to monitor the
evolution of the program and ensure that it meets the goals that
are set.
8:33:38 AM
CO-CHAIR MEYER asked Ms. Barrens if she would like to comment on
the bill.
MS. BARRENS said the Alaska Commission on Postsecondary
Education is excited about the prospect of having a program that
offers equal opportunity to Alaska students to advance to
postsecondary education and training. She related that the
commission has been involved in the development of the bill and
she believes that the provisions are mindful. For example, the
six-year framework that the bill proposes is designed to incent
students to proceed from secondary to postsecondary schooling as
quickly as possible because there is a direct correlation
between waiting and the ability to succeed. She noted that in a
written response to prior committee questions Ms. Butler pointed
out that students who delay pay more and their chance of success
is diminished. Most states that have similar programs require
students to continue within a year of graduation from high
school. Responding to Senator Davis's observation that her
packet didn't contain correspondence from Stephanie Butler, she
related that a letter dated 2/23/10 was sent to the co-chairs.
CO-CHAIR MEYER assured Senator Davis that she would receive a
copy.
8:36:39 AM
SENATOR STEVENS said he agrees that students who delay take
longer to get a degree, but he isn't sure it makes a difference
if a student starts college at age 18 or age 25 if the goal is
to educate the workforce and get more people to get a college
degree.
MS. BARRENS said she agrees with his statement, but financial
aid programs for adult students are outside the scope of the
proposal. The structural objective of this program is to create
a sense of urgency in students to proceed to postsecondary
education and training and complete it quickly. She noted that
the governor's proposal allows for half-time attendance, but
statistics show that they have a lower expectation of success.
SENATOR STEVENS said some people need a longer time to mature to
be ready for college and he believes that issue needs to be
addressed at some point, perhaps outside this bill.
8:39:48 AM
CO-CHAIR THOMAS asked at what grade students begin to get
information about higher education and training programs.
MS. BARRENS explained that the earliest outreach effort that the
postsecondary commission has is second grade. It's a joint
activity with the University of Alaska. In fifth and sixth
grades they have a program called "I'm going to college" that
starts the students thinking about careers and includes a trip
to the local university campus. The university sends information
directly to high school freshmen about planning a preparatory
curriculum. In the junior and senior years the commission sends
information to students promoting going to college in Alaska.
CO-CHAIR THOMAS asked if school districts have embraced the use
of the information.
MS. BARRENS answered yes; the schools have enthusiastically
welcomed the outreach because there had been a vacuum for this
sort of information. She offered to provide specific information
about the districts that participate in the various initiatives,
but this year they anticipate that more than 2000 fifth graders
will participate in the "I'm going to college" program. The
direct mailings go to all students of a certain age regardless
of whether they're in the school system.
8:43:48 AM
CO-CHAIR THOMAS asked if there is outreach to parents as well.
MS. BARRENS explained that the commission sends cards to the
parents informing them of what was sent to their child and
asking for input, but the caveat is that all the information is
in English. The outreach unit, which is based in Anchorage,
engages faith-based organizations, Boys and Girls clubs, YMCAs.
COMMISSIONER LEDOUX added that the implementation of the GPS
program will include a regulation requiring six-year education
plans beginning in the sixth grade. A school official will meet
annually with the student and parent to review the plan so the
parent can receive information about choices, scholarships, and
pathways. Also, the state is in the final stage of approving a
new CTE plan that calls for the development of grade level
expectations in career and technical education starting in
kindergarten. There's a lot of effort in this area, he said.
8:46:51 AM
SENATOR OLSON recalled that in the '70s lots of high school
graduates who went to the North Slope to work on the pipeline
never returned to school and he sees the same cycle potentially
repeating itself with the natural gas pipeline. The proposal in
on the right track; students should proceed to postsecondary
education and training sooner rather than later.
SENATOR STEVENS reiterated his belief that it would be a shame
to pass a scholarship bill that leaves out non-traditional
students.
SENATOR HUGGINS asked how the current scholars program will be
affected by this proposal.
COMMISSIONER LEDOUX replied he can't comment on the future of
the scholars program going forward, but he hopes it continues
because the two are compatible although very different. The
scholars program provides funds to all students in the top 10
percent of their graduating class as opposed to the governor's
proposal that demands a rigorous curriculum, a certain GPA, and
a certain validating test score.
8:51:28 AM
SENATOR HUGGINS asked how the governor's proposal will help
address current shortages in the professional workforce in
Alaska.
COMMISSIONER LEDOUX said there has been no discussion about
extending the program to professional preparation programs, but
a student who receives a BA down south could return to Alaska
and still have two years of eligibility that could be used for
graduate or professional school.
SENATOR HUGGINS suggested that the committee meet with the
university, high schools and DEED to talk about an integrated
tracking strategy for students.
8:55:21 AM
MS. BARRENS explained that the grant application the
commissioner referenced is for a state longitudinal data system
that proposes to do that working with the Department of Labor
and Workforce Development, the Department of Education and Early
Development, the University of Alaska, and potentially the
Department of Health and Social Services, and the Department of
Corrections. The idea is to track students who are successful
and those who fall through the cracks. You can't understand the
benefit of education without identifying the cost of not being
educated, she said.
SENATOR DAVIS said she too has grave concern about ignoring non-
traditional students, particularly after listening to the recent
testimony about their needs. She asked if the department would
consider amending the bill to accommodate these students in some
way.
COMMISSIONER LEDOUX answered that the goal of the governor's
proposal is to inspire young people who are in the system to
work harder and develop a vision for success. While he
recognizes that non-traditional students need support, opening
this program to anyone who decides to go back to college would
change its focus entirely.
8:59:21 AM
MS. BARRENS related that the AlaskaAdvantage need-based grant
program is available to anyone in need as long as funds are
available, but the funding source is very small. After 2011 the
program will either stop or the commission will be back asking
the Legislature for consideration for funding.
SENATOR DAVIS asked if AlaskaAdvantage is entirely state funds.
MS. BARRENS replied they received some non-recurring corporate
funds this year. There is a little over $100,000 in federal
dollars and the Legislature appropriated in the capital budget
in FY09 funding that they are spreading over three years.
CO-CHAIR MEYER asked if the governor's original bill required
the FAFSA.
MS. BARRENS replied the bill doesn't specify that it's required,
but the commission would intend to use it. Without that
information they couldn't tell the socioeconomic status of
students who receive the scholarship funds. Responding to a
question, she said that filing the FAFSA is an annual process.
9:02:54 AM
SENATOR STEVENS commented that they've made progress today, but
he and Senator Davis want to make sure the committee addresses
the issue of non-traditional students.
CO-CHAIR MEYER agreed that the issue should be addressed and
said he believes that the committee has a better feel for the
bill and is ready for another CS.
SENATOR DAVIS suggested that it would be helpful to get a
written response to the questions that were asked previously.
9:05:55 AM
COMMISSIONER LEDOUX committed to respond by Monday. He added
that he can answer question 16 right now. It asks if this is too
much to do in one year and the answer is no. We can do it, he
affirmed.
SENATOR STEVENS said he assumes Ms. Barren is comfortable making
merit the first stage and needs the last and that she'd make the
unmet needs portion of the FAFSA work.
MS. BARRENS answered yes and added that "It would be unfortunate
to set a lower standard for economically disadvantaged
individuals and see them succeed at lower rates than everyone
else."
[SB 224 was held in committee.]
9:07:44 AM
There being no further business to come before the committee,
Co-Chair Meyer adjourned the Senate Education Standing Committee
hearing at 9:07 a.m.
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